Digital Copiers

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Permalink Reply by Jon Hartwig on July 24, 2008 at 1:39pm

Just out of curiosity, what RIP are you guys using, Mike?

This is the first I've heard of any of the heavier stock issues. I'll keep them in mind. The last thing I want to do is recommend a machine that won't do the job the client wants done.

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Permalink Reply by Andy Smalley on July 25, 2008 at 7:22pm

I'm a KM fan....with regards to the image problems...I know that there has been an upgrade to the printer drivers... we had similar problems, but as soon as we upgraded the driver, which we got from our service tech (at the time, wasn't available on the web yet), it ran smoothly.

With regards to Xerox vs. KM...my preference leans towards the KM side.... The one thing I hated with xerox, and cannon for that matter, in particular with printing thicker glossy stock, is seeing those fuser roller marks... with the new poly toner, and no fuser oil, roller marks are gone :)

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Permalink Reply by Michael Markuson on July 29, 2008 at 4:41pm

What machines are you comparing here?
With my Doc 12 I had roller marks with my workcentre 7655 (same print engine as the Doc 240, 250, 260 series) I do not have marks...
So what machines are you comparing?

Anyone else lean KM vs Xerox?

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Permalink Reply by Jon Hartwig on August 1, 2008 at 12:17pm

I checked up with one of our print production specialist and he always advises people running heavy jobs on the c6500 to calibrate once a day every morning before starting. He says it's a great machine, but if you want the bang for your buck you have to maintain the equipment. I don't know if this helps or not, but I hope it does.

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Permalink Reply by John McAuley on August 4, 2008 at 10:31am

Calibration on any machine should be done daily....probably the biggest oversight made in most shops. Also, different stocks require different calibrations! IMO, it really depends on what you need to produce. My viewpoint is from needing to produce materials as close as possible to offset. Dealing with ad agencies and high profile corporate accounts that love the cost savings, but wanted the best quality. Back in the day I had Canon machines, 700, 800, etc. decent machines when they were up, but way too many service calls, front to back reg....horrible. Brought in Xerox machines, 2045's, then 6060's. These are the first machines I considered production machines. Have only heard nightmares of Indigo. I now have 2 Xerox Doc 5000's. My volume is pretty close to justify an IGen, but honestly would add more 5000's first. Service call intervals are measured in weeks, not days. Thanks to customer replaceable drums! Best machine thus far! Especially when coupled with a Creo Spire RIP, which I consider to be essential, great registration control, color control and imposition for not only step and repeat but booklet making as well. They all "have" this capability, but Creo does it the best. Alternatives? A small percentage of my clients also like the look of Indigo, they have an inherent matte look, while most Xerox have a glossier look. Compare costs to acquire and operate this machine and its a no-brainer. Nexpress and new Canon 7000 machines can produce great prints as well...costs and uptime? Love my 5000's.
Other brands, I consider to be office machines or for in-house graphics where just getting info to your people is of the essence, not quality. Whatever you can sell, becomes your favorite machine! Look at all and base your purchase on your client needs. Best of luck! Let us know what you do.

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Permalink Reply by Christopher on August 4, 2008 at 12:27pm

Xerox Doc 12

I tolerate it. Sometimes it's brilliant sometimes it's fussy

Nexgen would be awesome.

We tend to keep short runs of 400 or less on the Xerox. We also have a Xante Illumina Digital Press that is really nice for short color runs. We use this as a less expensive alternative for hardcopy proofing when a customer says no to softproofing.

We have excellent customer service.

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Permalink Reply by Linda Bova on August 4, 2008 at 1:05pm

I could go down the line answering question by question, BUT....one really needs to better understand your workflow. I believe that all the printers that you listed are fine machines which match specific applications perfectly. To find the machine that fits all worlds is impossible! I myself run a full Canon shop. We run Imagerunners (monochrome) and the C7000vp for our full color production output. I personally have found the Canon line, Ikon, and my chosen front-end solutions to be what fits my business needs best. We are a document solutions provider so it is very important that we have the abiltiy to be creative and versatile in the types of paper that we handle. This environment aint' cheap and unless you are hitting at least 500,000 images on the monochrome side per month and 100,000+ on the Full Color side of the business you won't be able to justify the expense. Also, if you need to provide redundancy to your customers then you need to double the usage for your cost anaylsis!

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Permalink Reply by Brian SanFillipo on August 4, 2008 at 5:09pm

Well I thought I would add my 2-cents too. We have a sizable digital print shop with 13 production presses and a few more that I would consider mid-volume presses. We are predominately a Xerox shop and last year we needed to add another monochrome system. I was able to get companies to agree to drop a system here for testing with the understanding that I would purchase the winners system and they would be the first consideration when adding additional digital presses. I ended up testing a Xerox Nuvera 144, Oce 6250, Kodak E150 and a Ricoh EMP156.

Well to cut to the chase I purchased the E150 but a close second was the Ricoh EMP156, 3rd was Nuvera and last was the Oce system. Since we do a lot of VDP using VIPP I also had to compare Solimar and RSA conversion software and up with RSA.

These were the only systems that made it into testing and as you know these are black only. If I were able to do this again on the color side for digital cut-sheet I would add KM and Cannon (depending on volume) into the mix but take Oce out.

Well there was my 2-cents (okay, maybe 3-cents). Please remember there were a lot of items to consider in the evaluation and I would be happy to answer questions if asked.

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Permalink Reply by Debby DeRosa on February 26, 2009 at 8:26am

Ricoh, Savin, and Lanier are the same machines. I sold Ricoh for about 10 months before I returned to the printing industry (thank God). My current company has Xerox machines. The little one we have in the sales area is slow as crap, but I don't work with the production machines. I can get you in touch with my manager if you want his thoughts. But it looks like everyone else gave you a lot of ideas.

The main thing I want to tell you is that everything is negotiable in that industry. Decide what machine you want and see if you can talk the rep down. You usually can, especially if the order is big enough. It's a cut throat industry.

If you want me to look over your paperwork before you sign, let me know. I know a few things that different vendors do to make their costs SEEM cheaper. Then, you get hit with big bills later. For example:

- Are the property taxes included in your lease payment? Usually, they're not, so you get a separate bill.
- What leasing company are they using? What are the payment terms? How is this company rated? I have opinions about several leasing companies. My main thought is that you SHOULD NOT go with Wells Fargo. They are ridiculous to work with and will nickle and dime you on things. I spent most of my time with Ricoh trying to fix issues from sales reps before me made. Which leasing company you use is really important because the leasing company is going to make it really expensive for you to buy out your lease if you want to go with another company in the future - even if you're using the same copier vendor.

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Permalink Reply by John DeLucia on February 26, 2009 at 1:57pm

We are a municpal in-house.. along with the offset sheetfeds, we have:

(2) Canon 7105's, linked, with bookletmaker/inserter/finsihers. Also running the Canon Imagware print controller. - Not too impressed with imageware, it still needs more features for a production environoment.. Though they run like champs. 3 months in service, no service calls except for the usual PM's.

(1) Canon CLC5100 with a z7100 RIP - for short run color. Its a little problematic with specialty stocks and any screens involving cyan/magenta. We've had that a little over 3 years, but its had a good share of abuse. This is going to be replaced with a imagePRESS C7000VP very soon, hopefully.

These are set up on a per-click lease only (only pay for what we use). Toner/servicecontract is included in the clicks.

Service is OUTSTANDING, Ray Morgan Co. based out of Visalia, California.

Prior to the 7105's we had a pair of Konica DI750's, with MicroPress v.6 - They job programming flexibilty has been unmatched, even by the newer canons we have. They were real workhorses, but they required constant fuser attention by the service techs. Not the machines fault, they should have been retired a year prior.

We also have a BizHub c351 as a "backup", its more of a dust collector. No complaints with the machine, really, its just more of an office copier than a production machine.

Our only mistake was not purchasing in-line finishing for the CLC.

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